These are segments of a phone call made to Mark Lottor in October, 1994, after he had stopped an attack on his system by disconnecting the network cable. Mark was aware that the caller was Kevin Mitnick, and he attempted to get information by "playing dumb," while Kevin was not aware that Mark knew who he was, and was trying to flatter/charm him into giving him his cellular software.

You reverse-engineered it? (200K)

Kevin tries to persuade Mark to give him the software he was trying to find and steal earlier. He flatters him, saying that he wouldn't have believed that it could be reverse engineered. "That's quite a feat."

We're all hackers here together. (256K)

The flattery didn't work. Now they chat about the break-in; Kevin says that of course he wasn't trying to damage anything, but that, of course, as a hacker, he had to try to break in and get what he wanted. He says they're both hackers, perhaps implying that they're in a sort of brotherhood such that Mark would naturally share his code with him.

How did you get my new passwords? (320K)

Mark asks, buddy-to-buddy, for Kevin to enlighten him as to how he kept getting Mark's new passwords. Kevin laughs, pleased and impressed with himself, but says he won't tell because then Mark could lock him out.

I want to know what the addresses are. (168K)

Kevin explains why he was trying to steal the cellular phone firmware, of course, he just wants information, so of course Mark should give it to him. Mark still won't give it to him.

That's a bummer. (344K)

Mark patiently explains to Kevin that the Oki 1150 that he wants to modify is quite different from the Oki 900 that Kevin seems to have already played with; Kevin is chagrined and says "that's a bummer."

Doing my homework. (248K)

He's tried flattery and brotherhood, and that didn't work, so now Kevin tries to show Mark how much he "knows" about him, perhaps to impress or intimidate him into giving him the software. Mark laughs and says "I'm not that stupid."

I guess you know Tsutomu? (176K)

Kevin asks Mark about knowing Tsutomu; Mark says he knows him, but acts like he doesn't know that much about him, so Kevin keeps telling more about what he knows.

He won't get anywhere if he tries. (472K)

Kevin asks Mark specifically about Tsutomu's work with cellular phones, and is impressed with what Mark says about how fast Tsutomu worked. He then talks about when Kevin Poulsen will be out of jail, and Mark makes a joke about how he hopes it will be soon, because he needs help tracing a call. Kevin realizes this refers to him, and says that tracing him won't get him anywhere.

If you'd like to take a look... (248K)

Kevin makes another transparent attempt to get Mark's software, offering to show Mark some Motorola cellular phone software (naturally, Mark would be expected to show him his stuff in exchange). Mark acts interested and gets the details, but doesn't make the expected offer/trade.

I'm more interested in the reverse-engineering code. (232K)

Everything else has failed, so now Kevin offers to buy ("for a reasonable price") Mark's software.


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